When Did We Become So Proud of Being Broken?

My friend from college posted a link to her Facebook Wall yesterday.

It was a counter point article from CNN written in response to Tracy McMillan’s Huffington Post article “Why You’re Not Married.”

In the rebuttal, CNN columnist details her reasons for why she’s 40 and unmarried.

Maybe you spent your adolescence clashing with a stepfather who didn’t get you emotionally. And maybe the father who did get you had been relegated by the courts, when you were 2 and your parents divorced, to every-other-weekend access. Maybe your first love cheated on you, just around the time a second divorce rolled through your family. So maybe your faith in men and marriage was a little shaken before you teased your hair for the prom.

But that’s nothing some therapy and better hair sense can’t fix, right?

 

Maybe you were and still are a hopeful (I refuse to say hopeless) romantic who for years held a candle for the one you thought was The One.

And maybe he slipped and called you his soul mate at one point, a statement you caught and remembered. So even after you read the diary he’d left out, oops, learned about the Brazilian woman with amazing eyes, broke up and dated others, you still held out hope for him. You stupidly took the crumbs he tossed you from time to time and thought they had meaning. Finally, you got through your thick noggin that the guy just wasn’t that into you. Hell, he wasn’t even all that nice to you. You learned he wasn’t the one who got away. He was the one who got in the way.

Then, maybe you met the one who was that into you. He loved and respected you like no man had before. And the dog — how could you not fall for the man and his dog? ….maybe he pulled out a ring and asked you to marry him.

Maybe you said yes but then freaked out. … Maybe you were seized by fear. But everyone around you, including your therapist, said they expected nothing less, given your family history. They even said it would be weird if you didn’t freak out. So you were engaged to be married.

But maybe after you moved to a new state and settled into engaged life, you still worried. That fear, that inkling that something was missing or wrong, grew stronger….You didn’t want to quit the race, but at some point you knew with painful clarity there was a hurdle you two couldn’t clear. So maybe, out of your love for him and yourself, you handed back the ring and left.

Maybe, even as you licked those wounds in your pathetic little apartment, you began to appreciate your courage. You learned to trust yourself more. You realized your past didn’t define your future; you did.

Maybe you suddenly lost your father. Being emotionally available for someone else wasn’t something you could even entertain. Now you had an excuse not to date.

But maybe you knew that your dad — not to mention your amazing mom and stepmom, and your now-gentler ex-stepdad — wanted nothing more than for you to love and be loved. So when you were ready, with a fresh start in a new city, you were excited to put yourself out there again.

Maybe you were approaching 40 when you arrived in the South. Maybe you were slapped across the face with the reminder that most people your age are married with children. Maybe you went to a singles event and became convinced you were the oldest one there, so you ducked out early.

But maybe you held onto hope and optimism. You sucked up your pride and whipped up an online dating profile. You found out that men in Belgium, as well as men with odd fetishes and offensively bad grammar and spelling, have a thing for you. You received horrifying — yet hysterical — notes from suitors that made for great Facebook status updates.

Maybe you agreed to go on dates you dreaded because you were determined to have an open mind. Maybe you learned you had good reasons to dread those dates. You wolfed down a nice piece of salmon as one man told you, within the first hour of meeting, that he cheated on his wife, still loves his ex-girlfriend and didn’t go to his own father’s funeral. Maybe you thought you should charge him for therapy.

But maybe you still believe there’s someone great out there for you. You’re ready, you know you have so much to give, and you look forward to meeting him — wherever and whenever that might be.

Read the full article here

 

Hmm. This sounds familiar. Too familiar.  This appears to be the growing voice out there, and it’s really alarming to me.

Okay. I’m just gonna ask the question that has been bouncing around my brain since I read this article last night:

When did we become so proud of being broken?

All I hear in this woman’s article (and all over the internet) is a myriad of excuses and sob stories. “See, I was hurt once or twice. But instead of getting my shit together and addressing the issues and the reason why I perpetually dated assholes, I just forged onward and wore my scars like a badge of honor. See, I’m afraid of being vulnerable. I’m afraid of being hurt because I’ve been hurt. Do you need me to tell you the stories again? Because I will. I’ll tell the same story over and over again every time people start wondering what my deal is or starts questioning why nothing ever seems to work out for me.  I’ll use these bad experiences as a shield so nobody will think it’s me. Because it’s not, okay? I’m choosing this life. Society has certain ideas about how I should behave. I’m a rebel! But I’m also quite fragile. So be careful with me. ”

Let me explain what you’re choosing. You’re choosing to be wounded and using it as an excuse. And you know what?

It’s an excuse. It’s a Lifetime movie of the week. Strong, single independent, no nonsense woman who is afraid to love. Attracted to the wrong guys. Never interested in the available ones. How original.

In one breath you proclaim your independence and self-sufficiency. In another you’re saying you have no control over why you do what you do, or why you date who you date. You’re just wired that way. Which is it. Either you’re strong and independent, or you’re this fragile little turtle afraid to poke your head outside of its shell, ruled by her neurosis.

What is the root of this thinking?? Where is it coming from??? I don’t know. Maybe I’m being insensitive here. Maybe I’m just projecting my own remorse for my past mistakes. I know, or at least I’m sure, that I thrived off of playing the victim. But doesn’t that get exhausting? How long can that last??  Who didn’t have a weird relationship with one or both of their parents? Who didn’t date a handful of jerks? Who hasn’t been afraid of being rejected? It just feels like people are holding on to these experiences and using them as both a way to get attention and sympathy as well as an excuse to never  open up or give any decent guy a chance. What’s all this really about? What are we really afraid of..and why??

Is it that men fear commitment and women fear…intimacy?

We’re more resilient than this..aren’t we?

 

I know I’ve been harping on this issue lately. There have been a ton of article highlighting what’s going on with single women out there. Which is why I’ve been writing more of this type of stuff lately.

 

Is There Really a Lid for Every Pot?

Name: ConfusedinCali | | Location: Burbank , CA |Question: Moxie, I知 confused, frustrated,and tired of playing this dating game.

When did getting into relationships get so complicated, or have they always been this way? It seems like for some people, finding a long-term mate is relatively simple. Boy meets girl. They fall in love. Move in with each other, and at some point get married. Relatively simple.

But where does that leave the rest of us? The ones who just have a hard time coming across anyone who is somewhat decent?

I知 writing this from the perspective of a divorcee who is just confused about all the mixed messages about dating that are thrown out there- you have people saying that in order to meet a marriageable man, a woman needs to be independent and be able to carry her own weight in the world. And then you have others who say that a woman needs to NEED a man for whatever reason, financial or emotional.

What gives? Are there just outliers in this world who are destined to never be in LTRs and maybe we should just get over it and move on with our lives?
|Age: 33

Well, I think the first adjustment you need to make is to stop looking for a “marriageable” man and simply seek one who is capable of and desiring of a relationship and commitment. The number of men and women who do not believe in marriage is growing. That doesn’t mean they don’t want to meet someone with whom they can settle down or have a long term partnership. They’re just not keen on the institution of marriage itself. It’s not due to a bitterness or cynicism towards love or monogamy or commitment. These people just don’t feel marriage is the only way two people can forge a life together. There are plenty of people to whom marriage is the end goal. I just don’t think they’re as common as they were 10+ years ago.

Now, as to why some people have more luck finding a relationship than others. I think, believe it or not, a lot of it has to do with practice and basic skill. Some people are better at algebra than others. Some people are better at playing an instrument than others. Dating really isn’t so different. If you have the desire, and you have the right attitude, and you’re willing to do the work, anything is achievable. Yes, some people have natural ability. But here’s what I’ve found. Those people with natural ability all share one thing: limitless thinking. They never think they can’t do something.

My uncle was a natural athlete. Any sport, he excelled. His brother, My Dad, had to work at it. He still excelled, but it wasn’t as easy for him. It took him longer and he took more hits. But, eventually, he got there.  My Dad is a thinker.  He’s cautious. He weighs the pros and cons. He never believed that anything came easy, that you had to work at it. If it came too effortlessly, it wasn’t real or wouldn’t last.   My uncle just..did. He never questioned why, he never let those doubts creep in to his head. He just acted. Make note that both men eventually got to the same place.  It just took one longer.

Some people approach dating the same way. They don’t over-analyze anything. They don’t question their abilities. They don’t dwell on mistakes. They just..date.

you have people saying that in order to meet a marriageable man, a woman needs to be independent and be able to carry her own weight in the world. And then you have others who say that a woman needs to NEED a man for whatever reason, financial or emotional.

Well, no. This is where you’re processing things based on your inner narrative. A woman can be independent and self-sufficient and still need someone. By “need”, most people mean be emotional available and be willing to be vulnerable. You’re the one tacking on the “financial or emotional.” In order for people to have a successful relationship, both parties have to be willing to “need” each other. They can’t see that as a sign of weakness. If someone refuses to let someone in, or allow someone to help them, or are afraid to be themselves, then they are going to have a hard time finding a healthy relationship. That’s not about a shortage of men or women. That’s about them and their limited way of thinking. If that’s how you see life, then that’s exactly what you’re going to find. This isn’t about the Law of Attraction or any sort of woo woo type of principle. If you’ve convinced yourself the sky is green, the sky is green to you.

This mentality that “all the good ones are taken” or “there are no decent men/women” is just defeatist propaganda. I honestly think it’s just a way for people to deter others from pursuing a relationship.   It’s bullshit. There are plenty of great, healthy, loving, available people out there.

You just don’t want them. For whatever reason. Maybe you don’t really want a relationship. Maybe you’re afraid. Maybe because you’re dead set on a certain type and don’t see yourself with anyone else.  I don’t know. But I do know that people nowadays are far too quick to dismiss people and blame society or others as to why they’re single. Sorry, but if someone is constantly struggling,  constantly disappointed, constantly griping…the problem is them.And it usually starts with their attitude.

Do I believe there is a lid for every pot? No. Everybody doesn’t get a ribbon. Life just doesn’t work that way. But I think you’re more likely to succeed (without and hard and fast guarantees) if you have the right attitude, are open minded and deal with whatever it is that is holding you back.

(Tangent up ahead.)

Yeah, I know. I’m finger pointing. (Guess which finger I’m wagging right now??) Learn to deal. I feel a need to defend my..what’s that word…community of dating advice people, dating experts and coaches. I’m beyond annoyed with this constant barrage of smarm and self-righteous/phony smugness directed at those of us who do what we do, accusing us of trying to make people feel bad about themselves. One, nobody can make you feel anything. Two, if you’re going to insist over and over that you’re so content being single, then how come you never say you prefer to be single? Why are you constantly on the merry go round that is online dating (other than you just need shit to blog about) ? How come you always qualify your statements with things like “Well, I’d like to be in a relationship but…I won’t settle/lower my standards” etc?(Those standards surely do come in handy, don’t they?)  That’s not the same as preferring to be single. If you would rather be in a relationship, and can’t seem to make that happen, then something is getting in the way. Is it wrong to suggest that, since you’re the only common denominator, that maybe the problem is within your control?

You want to talk about negativity fatigue? How about all the stories being filtered out through certain networks and Twitter about people being used and abused, pumped and dumped, lied to, cheated on and generally mistreated? Or about the stories about being judged and sized up by strangers because you’re single and how society is just so terribly threatened by you or how dismissed you are for being single? Or about how everyone you know that is in a relationship or is married is fucking miserable in some regard? Or the ones about how people refuse to settle and who blow off people because, I don’t know, they ordered too much food on a date? Worse, why are you so proud of the fact that nothing ever works out and all you attract is unavailable, abusive assholes? If dating is so taxing, and you’re so thrilled about being single, then stop doing it and stop bitching.

When are we, or anyone, allowed to suggest that maybe the string of frustrations or unhealthy experiences that certain people have are about them? What’s the quota that needs to be hit? How many stories do we have to hear before we’re allowed to suggest that someone be accountable? Or should we just tip toe around you so as to avoid hurting your delicate sensibilities while you regularly lash out at us?  If you don’t need us, and have such little disregard for us, then ignore us.

There isn’t some conspiracy out there that was designed to make you feel incomplete. Trust me. It ain’t all about YOU, no matter how badly you wish it were.

Pushing Your Buttons & Boundaries

ORIGINALLY POSTED AUGUST 18, 2008 – 32 COMMENTS

Name: Karina | Location: Brooklyn , NY |Question: My boyfriend (age 36, never married) is going away this week on a one week vacation to California without me. He took me along to  three 3 day trips this past year but I was a tag-a-long on business trips. We’ve been together a year and this was the first time we had a chance to go away together on a trip w/o business attached to it.

In June we were broken up (he broke up with me) when we were suppose to go to Disney for his birthday. He cancelled our trip and changed his ticket and went to Miami by himself. While in Miami, I was getting over him- he started emailing me telling me how much he misses me and want to work on our relationship and get back together. He even called me to ask me to go to this August California trip offering to bring both me and my dog. Now he says the reason he is not taking me to California is that he wanted me to pay for my own ticket and put some skin in the game and that would show my commitment to our relationship. I told him I wanted him to pay for it to show me he wanted me there because he loves me and that it would show me his commitment and that he didn’t just want me around for sex.

We both think the other one is not committed to each other. I admit I walk out or break-up with him when things are going bad- but they are for good reasons like being demeaned or verbally abused (he has an anger management issue he is working on).

. Being a recovering alcoholic with clinical depression (and I work really darn hard with medical professionals to deal with these issues) does not mean that if I confront him on areas where I am not being treated with consideration and respect, and where I may get sensitive about- that it amounts to me being in a mental wheelchair with “special needs”. He uses my illness against me whenever I have any expectations of him that are entirely reasonable to everyone else- just not to him. (I do not use my illness as a crutch or as an excuse. I am in therapy and am extremely proactive about living a strong healthy good life. My boyfriend acts like I am a basket case when I am not.)

My boyfriend thinks that I am overreacting about feeling alienated and rejected right now. He says he gave me an opportunity to go and just wanted me to put some money into the game b/c our relationship is so volatile.

Please do not think I am a primadonna that just needs him to pay for me. I NEVER ask him for anything in terms of material gifts- jewelry, clothes, handbags, etc… I earn about 15% of what he earns and am not the type of girl to demand or expect gifts. I do let him pay for most of our dates and I’ll pitch in by buying some groceries to cook for him or movie tickets- the smaller stuff. I go out of my way to constantly surprise him in a good way and he admits what a loving generous woman I am.  I want to see that he can be generous and loving with me and towards me. I want to see him cherish me. He thinks he shows that by all the times he’s driven me to the post office or when he has picked me up from the train station so I don’t have to walk in the rain or heat. I wanted some romance and I had to ask 6 months for a teddy bear and a bouquet of flowers. he said he use to give girls teddy bears and flowers and handbags and whatever they wanted because he was buying their love. now he’s over all of that.

Did I want too much by wanting him to fly me to California? The beach house he’s staying at is free as a gift from a business acquaintance.

Does this mean that he is just “not that into me”?

Super Thanks!! Karina |Age: 28

ORIGINAL ANSWER FROM AUGUST 2008:

Listen, you’re insecurity and neediness is not his problem. That’s your problem. You wanted flowers and a teddy bear because that, to you, demonstrates affection and romance? What are you…12? The problem here is that you need constant affirmation that he loves you and vice versa. Being a tag along on his business trips wasn’t enough? No, you needed your own special trip. You want him to fly you and your dog across the country because that makes you feel loved and wated. And that’s his problem…how?????????

I believe that the volatility comes from  me never feeling completely loved and accepted by him thereby pushing me away and me feeling defensive and pushing him away. See the spiral?!!

I don’t know….DO YOU????????????? Jesus, listen to yourself. “Me me me me me me and oh yeah…ME.” Of course the guy needs time away from you and wants you to pony up. You are so trapped in your own head and self-absorbed “I need him to do XYZ because then if he does I’ll feel loved and appreciated.” Okay, so you’re low self-esteem and is his responsibility? Guess what? You absolutely DO use your alcoholism and depression as crutches. You did it in your letter. You justified your neediness by citing your issues with alcohol and depression. Crutch? Meet kettle.

So, what, every time this guy doesn’t feed your need for attention you threaten to walk? Were you that kid who always threatened to run away as a child and who totally had her parents whipped and wrapped around her finger??? I’m betting you were. God, must have been quite a shock for you when you grew up and learned that the world does not revolve around you. That’s a really safe and nurturing environment you’ve cultivated there. Stop acting like a spoiled child. Not every guy is going to shower you with affection the way Daddy did. Despite what I’m betting you were told throughout your life, you are not a Princess. Listen to how many times you felt a need to defend the accusations that you’re a basket case, primadonna, etc. When people offer up things like that, know what that means? It means they are, in fact, exactly what they are denying that they are.

He also periodically breaks up with me because he thinks I have special needs that he is not ready to be responsible for

Translation – You’re too high maintenance and a raging pain in the ass. Don’t try and make this guy out to be the bad guy here. If he thinks you have specials needs it’s probably because you remind him of them every friggin’ time you two have a fight. Depression and alcoholism, while definitely very serious, are not life threatening. People walk this earth every god damn day living with both and you know what? They take responsibility for themselves and their behavior and manage to have perfectly healthy relationships. You are not dying or handicapped.

Grow. Up.

UPDATED ANSWER FEBRUARY 2011

I’m actually embarrassed by this level of hostility. I have to apologize to the woman who submitted this, if she’s even reading anymore after this insane tongue lashing. Somebody took her projecting pill before writing this response.

The real issue that I should have focused on was:

Sometimes two people are just not healthy for each other. These people can be totally capable of maintaining healthy, productive relationships with other people. But together they poke and prod and push buttons. This guy pushes your buttons. You push his. Maybe not intentionally or maliciously. But something about each of your personalities triggers a really negative response or pingsback to some negative point of reference. I’ve had two relationships like this in my life. You become a completely different person. You look back on those times and you literally can not recognize the person you were.

You are seeking this guy’s approval. You want this man to show you what you mean to him, and you’re basing that validation on actions that – in the grand scheme of things – don’t matter. This isn’t about the trip. And it’s not about the money. This is about pushing boundaries. Tests. Chess Moves. Ultimately, it’s a bout a lack of trust. He’s thinking that you’ve left him before, and you’ll likely leave him again. You’re thinking that he thinks you’re this broken little rag doll and you’re trying to stand up to him. I think to some extent you’re both a little broken in that you can’t fix the real problem in your own minds.

I’d suggest talking it out but, unfortunately, I think the damage is done here. You keep trying to fix something that can’t be repaired. You tried, and you gave it an admiral attempt. But sometimes you need to pay attention to how you allow yourself to feel when dealing with this person.

I don’t think you’re fighting to save your relationship. You’re fighting for your own self-worth. That’s why you are ignoring all the signs. You’re sticking it out because you feel like you’ve lost your footing and need to get it back.You’re in a race with him to see who has more control or power in the dynamic. He’ll relent and give in, but then out of no where he’ll do something to throw you off your game. Everything will be steady as she goes until..BAM!…one of you decides to disrupt the flow. It’s all about control. Not just control…total dominance. It’s about beating the other person down until they’re totally submissive. And it never ends.

You have to understand something. These people? These button pushers? Their opinion means NOTHING. We put them high up on a pedestal and give them far more credit than they deserve. Here’s what I’ve learned: People like this are never what they seem. Their arrogance and dismissive and controlling behavior is a cover for something. They’re keeping you at a distance for a reason, and it’s usually to make sure you don’t see them for the person they really are.

If you’re constantly berating yourself, questioning yourself, analyzing every word, doubting your own memory…it’s time to go. If only to protect your own ego and self-esteem.

YOUR THOUGHTS?

Sometimes We’re Just an Option

So here’s the scenario:

A woman goes on three dates with a man. She has sex with him on the 3rd date. The holidays come around and he goes quiet for a while. She decided to give him the benefit of the doubt and believe him when he said they’d get together after the holidays. So the holidays end and they go out again. (It’s not clear to me how this date came about and who contacted whom first. When info like that is left out of the story, I’m always a little suspicious. But suffice to say they went out again. The day after their 4th date she sent the guy a text saying she had a good time and how it was nice to see him. He never replied and she never heard from him again.

The woman clears up a few points:

The “contacting over the holidays” was mutual but limited, i.e. she sent him a text that didn’t require a response, days go by, he sends her one that says his phone has been dead, she responds. Days go by, texts sent again – but only very few and no conversation was initiated on either part because they were both busy.

As for his intentions: it was quite clear they were both very interested in the beginning. He definitely pursued her, contacted her, discussed how much he liked her. Then disappeared. I think that’s the point: the dudes that show clear signals of interest, do the contacting, etc, so you feel like you’re on the same page. I agree that having a conversation is probably a good thing, but they also met online – which inofitself allows the assumption that you’re looking for a relationship.

My question is this: Where are these “clear” signs of interest? If she had to initiate the text exchanges over the holidays and if he was taking days to respond to her texts, how is that a “clear sign of interest?” To me, that’s a sign that the guy is moderately, if that, interested. Which is sort of typical for those early stages of dating, no? You’re speaking as though when all men do this – initiate contact, express interest – that they should somehow be held to that for an indefinite amount of time. What’s that saying about a woman’s right to change her mind?

As for how meeting someone online allows someone to assume that the person they’re dating is looking for a relationship…that’s a pretty slippery slope. Online dating also “allows” one to assume that the person they met is who they say they are…and how often does that not happen? Especially now. Maybe it’s me, but I assume that any guy I meet online ISN’T looking for a relationship until he tells me he is.

This is a scenario that, I think, constantly get misconstrued. I don’t think the guy’s lack of response had anything to do with the fact that she expressed her interest. I think he had to do with the fact that, from the beginning, she was just an option. And a man is allowed to decide for himself whether he wishes to pursue said option or not. Could he have been playing a game? Absolutely. But I think it’s really dangerous for women to assume that any time this happens, a man is “playing a game.” Sometimes they are. Other times they’re just making a decision that is right for them. Just like we do.

It seems like men get villianized unfairly for this. While I don’t like the fact that he fell off the face of the earth after he slept with her and find it disrespectful, the whole men/conflict thing has been beaten to a bloody stump around these parts. Everybody is allowed to decide whether or not they wish to pursue something with someone. Everybody is allowed to date with their own motivations or agendas. Where they become bad people is when they’re disingenuous about said intentions. Meaning they lie. If your friend made it clear what she was looking for upfront, before she slept with him, and he said he was seeking the same thing and really liked her and that he saw a future with her beyond a few dates, well he’s a not so nice person. But if that conversation never occurred, then the woman in this scenario proceeded at her own risk.  Here’s a good rule of thumb: If you question whether a man’s intentions are sincere, it’s best to proceed slowly. Either something about their behavior is tripping your internal triggers OR you’re carrying with you remnants of disappointments past and you won’t be able to give the guy a fair shake.

Sometimes it’s not that men are scared off by hearing or experiencing a woman expressing interest. Sometimes, believe it or not, they’re showing mercy by disappearing. Once a woman states her intentions, a man with a conscience is quite likely to pull back. If a man knows he’ll never be able to return her interest/courtesy/honesty on a comparable or respectful level, he can’t in good conscience proceed. The goal is to do this before he does too much to encourage the woman to believe otherwise. There is thing as a good man in a bad situation. What keeps him a decent man is that he sees the potential for hurt feelings and removes himself from the situation, instead of stringing you along for his own amusement. It’s actually smart for a woman to tell a man that she’s enjoying getting to know him. It will weed out a lot (but not all) of the men who aren’t on the same page.

If someone is interested in you, taking the initiative is not going to throw things in to chaos. Could he have been scared off by her revelation? Only if he wasn’t interested in getting to know her better and was just looking for sex. Or if he had been juggling options, she was just one of them, and he chose someone else. This whole “they’re a game player” thing is kind of overwrought in my opinion. If a woman can pursue just sex, or can require time to “figure out how she feels”  before she has sex, so can a man. Sure, men might not need time to determine if they’re ready for sex. But they do need time to determine if they wish to pursue something on an ongoing basis.

Sometimes I think the real hurdle for women is that they find it hard to believe that men have their own set of needs and their own comfort zones. Men don’t want to waste their time, either. And while they might not have  a problem with having sex with someone they’re unsure about, they do not want to become obligated to someone that they do not truly enjoy and with whom they feel comfortable.

There was another blog post recently where the woman went out on two dates with a guy, but decided by date 2 that he wasn’t relationship material. So she decided to have sex with him because, while she didn’t see him as Mr. Right, he fit the bill for Mr. Right Now. Perfectly acceptable. Four or Five days later after their 2nd date (and the sex) he sent her a text asking her where she’d been and what she was up to the next night (Friday.) She said she had plans early in the night, she said, but would be around after 8:30. He never responded. She wondered what was up and why he disappeared. Well, he was treating her as an option. Just like she had treated him like an option by deciding he wasn’t relationship material. We females are not the only ones who can do that, you know 🙂

I don’t think the man in the original scenario was playing a game or scared off by how the woman told him she enjoyed his company. I think he just wasn’t all that interested in the first place.  He rode it out, so to speak, and made a decision. He just didn’t tell your friend. Does that make him a bad person? Well, he’s not the most polite or courteous, that’s for sure. But again, the blow off or Fade Out is not exclusive to men. Men and women use that approach.

The real inconsistency here is how common it is for women to argue their right to take similar approaches to dating that they believe men take. Yet when that gets turned around on them, they’re thrown off their game and revert to behavior that is more commonly attributed to women – over analyzing, over thinking and assuming that games are being played.

Figuring out if you’re interested is not playing a game. That’s an integral part of the dating process.

 

Facing The Crazy

Name: Anon |  | Location: Hartford , CT |Question: I found out over the weekend that my boyfriend’s ex-wife contacted him in December asking saying she still loved him and that she regretted the divorce and wants to reconcile.  He had me read his response to her, which was kind and compassionate, but didn’t leave a lot of room for her to think he was interested.  He told me she sent him an email the next day retracting the first email.  He thinks it was probably a drunk email sent on their anniversary, no less.

When I met him, the divorce had only been final for 3 weeks, but he told me they had been separated for two years.  What he later disclosed was that they were going back and forth trying to make it work up until just a few months before he met me.

We’ve had quite a few discussions this weekend, and what has come out of it is that he still has his teenage ex-stepkids’ numbers in his phone, as well as his ex-moth
er-in-law, though he says he never calls and they don’t call him.  His ex-stepdaughter sent him a fundraiser request a couple of weeks ago (he didn’t contribute), about the same time her mother declared her love for him.  There had been no contact from/to the kids for the months we’ve been together up until then.

We’ve been together 9 months, and he was with her for six years.  I’m finding myself wanting to bail.  I don’t really want to stick around to see if anything more develops out of this, and there is also a part of me that feels their relationship was so much more legitimate (they said vows for pete’s sake and were a family) than ours is, and if they are going to reunite, I should get out of the way.  However, I really love this guy and was totally planning a future with him.

My boyfriend thinks I’m nuts, as he says he has no interest in reuniting with her whatsoever. We both have struggled with ridiculous insecurity issues, but it seemed to be getting so much better up until this weekend.  I’m not sure how to proceed, other than a lobotomy which I’m pretty sure my insurance won’t cover.  Any thoughts?  And please don’t just tell me I’m crazy, I kind of already suspect that – I’m just trying to get un-crazy by reaching out for some help.

|Age: 42

It really doesn’t sound to me like this guy has done anything wrong. To me, it sounds like you’re looking for a reason to bail before you get hurt. Which I get. But how many times are you going to do that before you just face up to what’s really bothering you?

I don’t see anything strange about the fact that he still keeps his ex-stepchildren’s or ex-mother in law’s numbers in his phone. Maybe it’s me, but half the time I can’t be bothered to delete people from my cell or Faecbook. And they are his ex-step-children, after all. Just because he and his wife got divorced doesn’t mean he just walks out of those kid’s lives. If anything, I find that pretty admirable.

The only way you’re going to get “un-crazy” is to face “The Crazy” head on. That’s the only way you can grow and get past it. Not sure there is much else I can say here.

Your thoughts?

Best of Moxie – Blue Balled

Originally Posted April 20, 2009 – 58 Comments

Name: John  | Location: Queens , NY |Question: So I’ve been dating this girl for a little over 2  months…. so far no sex. The first few dates we went back to my apartment and did everything up to sex, both of our clothes were off but got cut off at the end. She said she “is not there yet with me”. For the next 3 weeks  we hung out twice a week- no real hooking up, just a little kissing. She told me at one point that we didnt talk enough on the phone (she was a little upset) which was my fault so we ended up talking every day or 2 (she calls me and I call her) and still going out to dinner/drinks twice a week. So fast forward to last night, I asked her where our relationship is going? We go out and talk and have a good time but there’s nothing physical. She said that she understands my situation and needs but is “not there with me yet” and needs to know me better before doing that. She’s not a virgin or anything so its not like shes waiting for a ring. After that conversation I almost feel like my balls were just taken away and now I feel like I’m on the fence here which is a shame because I was crazy about her at first. My thought process now is she’s not comfortable enough with me after 2 months this is never gonna work. Thoughts? |Age: 30

And you’d be right. Move on. This girl needs an extra level of attention and affirmation and that speaks to how she will behave and act in the future. She’s going to be in need of constant validation.

I know I should join Team Vagina on this one and implore you to be patient, but you’ve been patient. I I’m not saying she should be putting out after date three. Of course a woman should be allowed to wait until she’s comfortable. But it’s been two months. If she’s not comfortable now, after all the dates and phone calls, then she’s never going to be ready. She’s trading attention from you for heavy petting from her. That’s not how it’s supposed to work. This is literally a tit for tat arrangement.

You’re calling her more because you think it will get you laid. Not because you genuinely want to call her. What person wants to get attention that isn’t genuine and comes with an ulterior motive?  You’re not calling her enough so she’s keeping everything buttoned up. But then you give in to this need and suddenly it boobie time! That’s childish. And, to be honest, it kind of makes you look like a door mat.

ETA JAN 2011: There’s a great saying that a lot of women use to describe men who don’t push for sex. “Oh..he’s such a gentleman!” No…he’s just not a date rapist. He could also be a gentleman, but the two can be mutually exclusive. This idea of what a gentleman is or isn’t hasn’t me baffled. Especially when I feel like there’s this test out there that women like to use that involves nothing that would actually tell you how much of a “gentleman” a man is. Like how often he pays, how much he pays and what he tolerates and puts up with.  More often than not, all that stuff is somewhat of an act. Men know what many women use to measure their value, so they play up those aspects. Half the time, the guy you know on dates 1-5 is not the guy you’re dating 5 months later. You don’t get authentic behavior from a subject that knows he/she is being monitored and rated. I think women do a huge disservice to themselves by equating how long a man will wait for sex with how much he likes her. I’d say 8 times out of 10, when a man hears “I need to feel comfortable with a man or have exclusivity before I have sex” from a woman he’s dating, he thinks she’s playing games and he bails. And in those cases, it is in no way fair to assume the guy was just looking for sex. Sure, probably 3 of those 8 were just looking for sex. But if he endures more than 3 dates with you and then loses interest when things don’t progress physically, there’s a really good chance he did like you, did want more and was tired of what he perceived were childish games.

Bottom line is that we all know within the first couple dates if we’re interested in taking things further. Yes, sometimes it doesn’t happen on the first date, but it should and usually does kick in after date number 3 or 4. If after two months she’s not sure, then that’s a sign that she’s either just not interested, has major issues surround sex and commitment, or just stringing you along.

I really used to think that if it was the right guy and he was truly interested, he’d wait for as long as it took. Uh uh. That’s not the case anymore. Each man has his own personal window for how long he’ll go without getting laid. The longer they go without it, the quicker they lose interest.  They’re tired of putting in time on a woman with little to no ROI. Yes, that means time, emotional and financial investment.

Let me be clear. I’m not encouraging women to have sex before they feel comfortable. But I am advocating that women be a bit more self-aware and honest with themselves and the guys they date. Two months and she’s “not there yet?” There’s something wrong there. Which is her responsibility, not his.

 

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Best of Moxie – For Men, Monogamy & Commitment Are About The Timing

Originally Posted Oct 1, 2009 – 41 Comments

so right before 1st date sex (right as the condom is going on), this guy disclosed to my friend that hewasnt interested in a relationship. of course it killed the moment and they ended up talking instead. however, a few hours later they still did the deed. she continues to see this guy for sexy time but it is always precursed by the “false pretense date”(dinner, dancing, day trips). so it is total fake romance, just to get both of them in the mood. because how can sex be fun without romance for either male/female? i think men need romance to get it on too and that’s why they pull the false pretense dates.- yb

Let’s not romanticize what’s really going on here. Men don’t need romance to get an erection or to have no strings sex. What this guy is doing is playing the role of the boyfriend, but with one caveat.

He won’t give the woman exclusivity.

He’s Caveat Dating. He wants the companionship and attention and affection and even the emotional connection that comes with a relationship…but he doesn’t want the obligation or commitment. A man will act like your boyfriend, call you, see you every weekend, take you to brunch on Saturdays or Sundays…but when you ask him where things are going or whether or not you are exclusive, he’ll say he’s not looking for a relationship. That’s a lie. He IS looking for a relationship. He’s just not looking for a girlfriend. Caveat Relationships can go on for months because a lot of women presume exclusivity. I mean, if it walks like a duck and talks like a duck, then it’s a duck, right?

Wrong.

You are only exclusive when the two of you explicitly state that you are exclusive. Guys will avoid this conversation for as long as they can because, even if they don’t have any designs on anyone else or have any other options, they like the idea of being free to do what they choose. That’s why they are happy to take their time and drag things out for as long as possible. They’ll keep the woman happy long enough for him to get comfortable with the idea of being in a committed relationship. Or until he meets someone that he does want a relationship with. Usually what a man means when he says “I don’t want a relationship”  is “I don’t want a relationship with you.” He just leaves the “with you” part off because he likes the companionship and sex and doesn’t want to lose it.

Name: fast&furious | Location: Boston , MA |Question: Recently, I went away for one week to a group event with friends. Towards the end of the week, I connect with a guy who I have seen in my circle of friends. The last two days of the trip spent 24/7 with him. The attraction was instant, so we became intimate right away. After returning from our trip, we hung out everyday, 10 days straight. He instantly broke up with his girlfriend to be with me.Their relationship was coming to a close when we meet. Its been about six week since we met and the intensity is still the same, even thinking of going away for thanksgiving. Should I be concerned that everything is going quickly? He says I am his girlfriend. |Age: 40

If it seems too good to be true or seems too easy, it usually is.

The guy you’re speaking about is looking to get out of a relationship, and using you to do it. He’s convinced himself it’s that he’s swooning in love with you, and I’m sure to some degree he does care for you and like you. But he’s been staying in a dead end relationship for awhile now…so why leave now? Oh, that’s right. Because before he let go of one branch, he needed to find another to keep him from falling. It’s the timing that’s right for him, not necessarily the relationship itself. I’d slow things down if I were you before you get crushed.

I am cynical about high speed, broadband relationships.  Even more so when I hear about relationships that go from dating to engaged to married to getting pregnant in under two years. In my opinion, any man who moves this quickly does so for one reason..his biological clock was ticking.I don’t care how great a woman is or how ideal she might be….men spend their whole lives avoiding monogamy and commitment. I mean, they give in and do it, but we’re talking the end all, be all of monogamy – marriage. No guy is jumping in to that just because he thinks he met his dream woman. In fact, I don’t think the woman has nearly as much to do with it as his desire to start a family. I think when a man decides it’s time to have kids, it’s amazing how quickly he’ll find Ms. Right.

What’s “right” is the timing… for him. Same goes for the man in this letter. He was looking for an excuse to finally leave his GF, and this woman provided it. So he’ll tell himself, in order to avoid feeling like a jerk, that it was just fate or love at first sight or things with this relationship were just “right.” That’s why he finally put his girlfriend out of her misery. Yes, that’s it.  No, he’s not selfish for maintaining a relationship with his GF when he knew things were bad or on its last legs. No, not at all. (sarcasm)

Best of Moxie – Why Not Just Use a Post It to Dump Her?

Originally Posted Sept 10, 2009 – 48 Comments

Name: Curious Gentleman |  | Location: West New York , NJ |Question: Dear Moxie, I’d like to get your opinion on a technique I have for breaking up gently with women, and perhaps some of your female readers will contribute their opinions as well. I try to use this break-up technique whenever I’ve gone on a few dates with a woman over the course of 2 to 3 weeks or even if we’ve been seeing each other for up 2 or 3 months. The romantic relationships I build tend to be very close and friendly, but eventually I realize that while I like the woman, I don’t want to spend the rest of my life with her and it’s pointless to let the relationship continue.

However, I recognize that the woman probably has some attraction and attachment and I want to minimize how much she gets hurt, plus minimize the tears and any impact to her self-esteem and self-confidence.  So I’ll gently nudge the relationship in a direction where she gets the sense that while I’m a nice guy, I’m not the right man for her in the long term, and she eventually breaks up with me. She’s not angry and there are never any harsh words or hurt feelings, and the splits are always amicable.

By “nudge” I don’t mean that I become unkind or nasty. Some examples are becoming a little too blunt in everyday discussions; I might take a little too long to return a phone call or not be available for a date on a Saturday night. I realize this might seem manipulative, but I’ve found that by letting the woman end the relationship on her terms, she comes away feeling much better about herself. As far as I can tell, the women aren’t aware that I’m nudging our relationship to its conclusion.

I should add that I’m 44 years old, only date monogamously, have never cheated on a woman, and I’m usually on the receiving end of breakups even when I don’t use this technique. Fortunately, I’ve been dating my girlfriend for 14 months and we just moved in together. So I’m not planning a break up this time!

Was my novel technique too manipulative? Was this unfair to the woman? Would women have preferred that I end the relationship sooner in a gracious manner? Do other guys use this technique? The opinion of you and your readers is appreciated. |Age: 44

Looking back on this letter, I realized what originally irked me so much about it. This guy was so proud of himself for developing this “technique.” Passive Aggression is hardly new, brah. Oh, and as for this:

She’s not angry and there are never any harsh words or hurt feelings, and the splits are always amicable.

If there were no hurt feelings, then one might question whether there were any feelings to be hurt in the first place.

I understand why  men might use this approach. I do. Nobody likes tears or questions or drama. But, and I hate that I’m going to do this, to quote Sex & The City:

Billy : All I’m saying is that there’s no good way to break up with someone.

Carrie: Well, it’s funny you should mention that Billy, because, actually, there is. You can have the guts and the courtesy to tell a woman, to her face, that you no longer want to see her. Call me crazy but, I think that, you can make a point of ending your relationship in a manner that does not include an e-mail, a doorman, or a missing persons report. I think you could all get over your fear of looking like the bad guy and actually have the uncomfortable break-up conversation Because, here’s what; Avoiding that is what makes you the bad guy. And just so you know, Alan;

Andrew : Andrew..

Carrie : Uh huh. Most women aren’t angry, irrational psychos. We just want an ending to a relationship that… That is thoughtful and decent and honours what we had together. So my point, Billy, is this; There is a good way to break-up with someone, And it doesn’t include a post-it.

For every annoying quote about shoes and penis size, there really are some gems from SATC. Carrie said it best. There IS a way to end a relationship (meaning an ongoing and consistent scenario where multiple dates were involved) without playing some stupid game of cat and mouse. You simply tell her, honestly, how you feel.

I hate to break it to you, Gentleman, but I’m going to guess that at least 80% of the time those women will not break down and threaten to off themselves once they hear this news. Many of us have the courage and dignity to take the news, walk away and cry on our friend’s shoulders and not in public. Don’t pull a Jerry Maguire and plan to dump us in a crowded restaurant so as to avoid a scene. One, we know what you’re doing. Two, it’s completely unfair to put us in a situation where we’re forced to act in a certain way.  Nothing exacerbates frustration or hurt like feeling micro-managed or controlled.

For relationships of a couple of months or more, just set up a time to meet us and TELL US. Stop using the excuse that you are “afraid” of our emotions or how we’ll react. Just stop that already. That’s a lame excuse. Often times men know what the right and proper thing to do is. They’re just too scared to do it. Don’t pin the blame on us because you’ve lost your balls.

Again, like Carrie said, what hurts us in most of these early stage curb kicking isn’t the actual break up. It’s the manner is which we were thrown back in to the dating pool. The fade out is commonplace after one or two dates. The majority of us have accepted that. We don’t expect a phone call or telegram informing us that we weren’t chosen for the second round. Doesn’t mean we wouldn’t like it, but we don’t expect it. (This is another reason why first/second date sex is such a mistake. Having the guy say he’ll call after only to never hear from him again is humiliating. )

If you’ve gone out on three or more dates, and definitely if things have become physical, the decent and proper thing to do is to tell us to our face – phone, e-mail, whatever but NOT TEXT – that we won’t be seeing each other again. Just write it out if the thought of us weeping and threatening to pitch ourselves off a building is just too much for you. But say it. Whether she accepts it or not is not your responsibility. You don’t owe her more than you’ve given her, which should be an honest, sensitive explanation as to why things won’t be moving forward. Don’t feel the spark/connection you need? Say that. Not looking for a relationship at this point and don’t think you will be in the near future? Say that. (Better yet, don’t go on dates if that’s the case. YMMV on that one.) She very well might reply and ask for further explanation. Delete it. You said what you had to say. It’s her responsibility to deal with it.

But……..if you know she likes you and is interested in more and you know you’re not, then try to resist hitting the sheets or fooling around. Because if you hook up with us on date two or three or four or whatever knowing full well you don’t see long-term potential, then dump us a week or two later, then that is  going to make us feel used. That’s when we get angry.  Here’s where you need to be more responsible, guys. Stop using your testosterone as an excuse to be a  jerk.

This is why women need to get comfortable telling a guy that they’re not looking for a casual hook up if they’re seeking a relationship. Men will forge ahead regardless of what they know instinctively to be true and justify it by saying “she wanted it” or “she didn’t tell me that.” So tell them. Both people have to be responsible for their own feelings and emotions and expectations. You can’t expect someone else, someone who barely knows you, to care that much.